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home:texts_and_library:dialogues:zeus-tragoedus [2019/07/06 12:38] – created frankhome:texts_and_library:dialogues:zeus-tragoedus [2019/07/06 12:43] (current) – [1] frank
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 //Ath//. Cronides, lord of lords, and all our sire, I clasp thy knees; grant thou what I require; A boon the lightning-eyed Tritonia asks: Speak, rend the veil thy secret thought that masks; Reveal what care thy mind within thee gnaws, Blanches thy cheek, and this deep moaning draws. //Ath//. Cronides, lord of lords, and all our sire, I clasp thy knees; grant thou what I require; A boon the lightning-eyed Tritonia asks: Speak, rend the veil thy secret thought that masks; Reveal what care thy mind within thee gnaws, Blanches thy cheek, and this deep moaning draws.
  
-{{:images/200/zeus-tragoedus.jpg}}+{{:home:texts_and_library:dialogues:pasted:20190706-124303.png }} 
 //Zeus//. Speech hath no utterance of surpassing fear, Tragedy holds no misery or woe, But our divinest essence soon shall taste. //Zeus//. Speech hath no utterance of surpassing fear, Tragedy holds no misery or woe, But our divinest essence soon shall taste.
  
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 //Zeus//. Good, Hermes; that is an excellent proclamation: see, here they come pell-mell; now receive and place them in correct precedence, according to their material or workmanship; gold in the front row, silver next, then the ivory ones, then those of stone or bronze. A cross-division will give precedence to the creations of Phidias, Alcamenes, Myron, Euphranor, and artists of that calibre, while the common inartistic jobs can be huddled together in the far corner, hold their tongues, and just make up the rank and file of our assembly. //Zeus//. Good, Hermes; that is an excellent proclamation: see, here they come pell-mell; now receive and place them in correct precedence, according to their material or workmanship; gold in the front row, silver next, then the ivory ones, then those of stone or bronze. A cross-division will give precedence to the creations of Phidias, Alcamenes, Myron, Euphranor, and artists of that calibre, while the common inartistic jobs can be huddled together in the far corner, hold their tongues, and just make up the rank and file of our assembly.
  
-//Herm//. All right; they shall have their proper places. But here is a point: suppose one of them is gold, and heavy at that, but not finely finished, quite amateurish and ill proportioned, in fact — is he to take precedence of Myron’s and Polyclitus’s bronze, or Phidias’s and Alcamenes’s marble? or is workmanship to count most?+//Herm//. All right; they shall have their proper places. But here is a point: suppose one of them is gold, and heavy at that, but not finely finished, quite amateurish and ill-proportioned, in fact — is he to take precedence of Myron’s and Polyclitus’s bronze, or Phidias’s and Alcamenes’s marble? or is workmanship to count most?
  
 //Zeus//. It should by rights. Never mind, put the gold first. //Zeus//. It should by rights. Never mind, put the gold first.
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 //Herm//. What shall I do, Zeus? Here is a difficulty again — too much for me. Going by material, he is bronze; but, reckoning the talents his bronze cost, he would be above the first class. //Herm//. What shall I do, Zeus? Here is a difficulty again — too much for me. Going by material, he is bronze; but, reckoning the talents his bronze cost, he would be above the first class.
  
-//Zeus//. What business has he here dwarfing the rest and blocking up all the bench?— Why, my excellent Rhodian, you may be as superior to the golden ones as you will; but how can you possibly go in the front row? Every one would have to get up, to let you sit; half that broad beam of yours would fill the whole House. I must ask you to assist our deliberations standing; you can bend down your head to the meeting.+//Zeus//. What business has he here dwarfing the rest and blocking up all the bench?— Why, my excellent Rhodian, you may be as superior to the golden ones as you will; but how can you possibly go in the front row? Everyone would have to get up, to let you sit; half that broad beam of yours would fill the whole House. I must ask you to assist our deliberations standing; you can bend down your head to the meeting.
  
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 //Herm//. Go ahead, then. //Herm//. Go ahead, then.
  
-//Zeus//. Men of — Heaven, I presume that you would be willing to pay a great price, if you could know what in the world has occasioned the present summons. Which being so, it is fitting that you should give a ready hearing to my words. Now, whereas the present crisis, Heavenians, may almost be said to lift up a voice and bid us take vigorous hold on opportunity, it seems to me that we are letting it slip from our nerveless grasp. And I wish now (I can’t remember any more) to exhibit clearly to you the apprehensions which have led to my summoning you.+//Zeus//. Men of — Heaven, I presume that you would be willing to pay a great price, if you could know what in the world has occasioned the present summons. Which being so, it is fitting that you should give a ready hearing to my words. Now, whereas the present crisis, Heavenians, may almost be said to lift up a voice and bid us take vigorous hold on opportunity, it seems to me that we are letting it slip from our nerveless grasp. And I wish now (I can’t remember anymore) to exhibit clearly to you the apprehensions which have led to my summoning you.
  
 As you are all aware, Mnesitheus the ship’s-captain yesterday made his votive offering for the narrow escape of his vessel off Caphereus, and those of us whom he had invited attended the banquet in Piraeus. After the libations you went your several ways. I myself, as it was not very late, walked up to town for an afternoon stroll in Ceramicus, reflecting as I went on the parsimony of Mnesitheus. When the ship was driving against the cliff, and already inside the circle of reef, he had vowed whole hecatombs: what he offered in fact, with sixteen Gods to entertain, was a single rooster — an old bird afflicted with catarrh — and half a dozen grains of frankincense; As you are all aware, Mnesitheus the ship’s-captain yesterday made his votive offering for the narrow escape of his vessel off Caphereus, and those of us whom he had invited attended the banquet in Piraeus. After the libations you went your several ways. I myself, as it was not very late, walked up to town for an afternoon stroll in Ceramicus, reflecting as I went on the parsimony of Mnesitheus. When the ship was driving against the cliff, and already inside the circle of reef, he had vowed whole hecatombs: what he offered in fact, with sixteen Gods to entertain, was a single rooster — an old bird afflicted with catarrh — and half a dozen grains of frankincense;
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-All the more when they hear the oracles saying that some one+All the more when they hear the oracles saying that someone
 The Halys crossed, o’erthrows a mighty realm, but not specifying whether that realm is his own or his enemy’s; The Halys crossed, o’erthrows a mighty realm, but not specifying whether that realm is his own or his enemy’s;
  
 or again or again
  
-O sacred Salamis, thou shalt slay Full many a mother’s son.+O sacred Salamis, thou shalt slay \\ 
 +Full many a mother’s son.
  
 The Greeks were mothers’ sons as well as the Persians, I suppose. Or again, when they hear the ballads about our loves, our wounds, captivities, thraldoms, quarrels, and endless vicissitudes (mark you, we claim all the while to be blissful and serene), are they not justified in ridiculing and belittling us? And then we say it is outrageous if a few people who are not quite fools expose the absurdity and reject Providence; why, we ought to be glad enough that a few still go on sacrificing to blunderers like us. The Greeks were mothers’ sons as well as the Persians, I suppose. Or again, when they hear the ballads about our loves, our wounds, captivities, thraldoms, quarrels, and endless vicissitudes (mark you, we claim all the while to be blissful and serene), are they not justified in ridiculing and belittling us? And then we say it is outrageous if a few people who are not quite fools expose the absurdity and reject Providence; why, we ought to be glad enough that a few still go on sacrificing to blunderers like us.
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 //Apol//. If we beardless juniors were competent to address the meeting, //I// might perhaps have contributed usefully to the discussion. //Apol//. If we beardless juniors were competent to address the meeting, //I// might perhaps have contributed usefully to the discussion.
  
-//Mo//. Oh, Apollo, the inquiry is so important that seniority may be waived, and any one allowed his say; a pretty thing to split hairs about legal competence at a supreme crisis! But //you// are surely qualified by this time; your minority is prehistoric, your name is on the Privy–Council roll, your senatorial rank dates back almost to Cronus. Pray spare us these juvenile airs, and give us your views freely; you need not be bashful about your smooth chin; you have a father’s rights in Asclepius’s great bush of a beard. Moreover, you never had a better opportunity of showing your wisdom, if your philosophic //seances// with the Muses on Helicon have not been thrown away.+//Mo//. Oh, Apollo, the inquiry is so important that seniority may be waived, and anyone allowed his say; a pretty thing to split hairs about legal competence at a supreme crisis! But //you// are surely qualified by this time; your minority is prehistoric, your name is on the Privy–Council roll, your senatorial rank dates back almost to Cronus. Pray spare us these juvenile airs, and give us your views freely; you need not be bashful about your smooth chin; you have a father’s rights in Asclepius’s great bush of a beard. Moreover, you never had a better opportunity of showing your wisdom, if your philosophic //seances// with the Muses on Helicon have not been thrown away.
  
 //Apol//. Why, it does not lie with you to give me leave, Momus; Zeus must do that; and if he bids, I may find words that shall be not all uncultured, but worthy of my Heliconian studies. //Apol//. Why, it does not lie with you to give me leave, Momus; Zeus must do that; and if he bids, I may find words that shall be not all uncultured, but worthy of my Heliconian studies.
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 //Herac//. Father, I am only an alien, but I am not afraid to give my opinion. Let them begin their debate. Then, if Timocles gets the best of it, we can let the meeting go on, in our own interest; on the other hand, if things look bad, I will give the Portico a shake, if you like, and bring it down on Damis; a confounded fellow like that is not to insult us. //Herac//. Father, I am only an alien, but I am not afraid to give my opinion. Let them begin their debate. Then, if Timocles gets the best of it, we can let the meeting go on, in our own interest; on the other hand, if things look bad, I will give the Portico a shake, if you like, and bring it down on Damis; a confounded fellow like that is not to insult us.
  
-//Zeus//. Now by Heracles — I can swear by you, I certainly cannot swear by your plan — what a crude — what a shockingly philistine suggestion! What! destroy all those people for one man’s wickedness? and the Portico thrown in, with the Miltiades and Cynaegirus on the field of Marathon? Why, if these were ruined, how could the orators ever make another speech, with the best of their stock-intrade taken from them? Besides, while you were alive, you might possibly have done a thing like that; but now that you are a God, you surely understand that only the Fates are competent, and we cannot interfere?+//Zeus//. Now by Heracles — I can swear by you, I certainly cannot swear by your plan — what a crude — what a shockingly philistine suggestion! What! destroy all those people for one man’s wickedness? and the Portico thrown in, with the Miltiades and Cynaegirus on the field of Marathon? Why, if these were ruined, how could the orators ever make another speech, with the best of their stock-in-trade taken from them? Besides, while you were alive, you might possibly have done a thing like that; but now that you are a God, you surely understand that only the Fates are competent, and we cannot interfere?
  
 //Herac//. Then when I slew the lion or the Hydra, was I only the Fates’ instrument? //Herac//. Then when I slew the lion or the Hydra, was I only the Fates’ instrument?
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 //Zeus//. Of course you were. //Zeus//. Of course you were.
  
-//Herac//. And now, suppose any one insults me, or robs my temple, or upsets an image of me, am I not to pulverize him, just because the Fates have not decreed it long ago?+//Herac//. And now, suppose anyone insults me, or robs my temple, or upsets an image of me, am I not to pulverize him, just because the Fates have not decreed it long ago?
  
 //Zeus//. Certainly not. //Zeus//. Certainly not.
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 //Da.// What do you mean by hounding them against me? Who are you, that you should protest in the Gods’ name? They do not even protest in their own; they have sent no judgement on me, and they have had time enough to hear me, if they have ears. //Da.// What do you mean by hounding them against me? Who are you, that you should protest in the Gods’ name? They do not even protest in their own; they have sent no judgement on me, and they have had time enough to hear me, if they have ears.
  
-//Ti.// They do hear you; they do; and some day their vengeance will find you out.+//Ti.// They do hear you; they do; and someday their vengeance will find you out.
  
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 //Ti.// Well, //he// maintains Providence, and warrants my belief. //Ti.// Well, //he// maintains Providence, and warrants my belief.
  
-//Da.// Magnificent! why, every one will grant you Homer’s poetic excellence; but not that he, or any other poet for that matter, is good authority on questions of this sort. //Their// object, of course, is not truth, but fascination; they call in the charms of metre, they take tales for the vehicle of what instruction they give, and in short all their efforts are directed to pleasure.+//Da.// Magnificent! why, everyone will grant you Homer’s poetic excellence; but not that he, or any other poet for that matter, is good authority on questions of this sort. //Their// object, of course, is not truth, but fascination; they call in the charms of metre, they take tales for the vehicle of what instruction they give, and in short all their efforts are directed to pleasure.
  
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-But I should be glad to hear which parts of Homer you pin your faith to. Where he tells how the daughter, the brother, and the wife of Zeus conspired to imprison him? If Thetis had not been moved to compassion and called Briareus, you remember, our excellent Zeus would have been seized and manacled; and his gratitude to her induced him to delude Agamemnon with a lying dream, and bring about the deaths of a number of Greeks. Do you see? The reason was that, if he had struck and blasted Agamemnon’s self with a thunderbolt, his double dealing would have come to light. Or perhaps you found the Diomede story most convincing?— Diomede wounded Aphrodite, and afterwards Ares himself, at Athene’s instigation; and then the Gods actually fell to blows and went a-tilting — without distinction of sex; Athene overthrew Ares, exhausted no doubt with his previous wound from Diomede; and+But I should be glad to hear which parts of Homer you pin your faith to. Where he tells how the daughter, the brother, and the wife of Zeus conspired to imprison him? If Thetis had not been moved to compassion and called Briareus, you remember, our excellent Zeus would have been seized and manacled; and his gratitude to her induced him to delude Agamemnon with a lying dream, and bring about the deaths of a number of Greeks. Do you see? The reason was that, if he had struck and blasted Agamemnon’s self with a thunderbolt, his double-dealing would have come to light. Or perhaps you found the Diomede story most convincing?— Diomede wounded Aphrodite, and afterwards Ares himself, at Athene’s instigation; and then the Gods actually fell to blows and went a-tilting — without distinction of sex; Athene overthrew Ares, exhausted no doubt with his previous wound from Diomede; and
  
 Hermes the stark and stanch ‘gainst Leto stood. Hermes the stark and stanch ‘gainst Leto stood.
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 //Ti.// Do you close your ears even to Zeus’s thunder, atheist? //Ti.// Do you close your ears even to Zeus’s thunder, atheist?
  
-//Da.// I clearly cannot shut out the thunder; whether it is Zeus’s thunder, you know better than I perhaps; you may have interviewed the Gods. Travellers from Crete tell another story: there is a tomb there with an inscribed pillar, stating that Zeus is long dead, and not going to thunder any more.+//Da.// I clearly cannot shut out the thunder; whether it is Zeus’s thunder, you know better than I perhaps; you may have interviewed the Gods. Travellers from Crete tell another story: there is a tomb there with an inscribed pillar, stating that Zeus is long dead, and not going to thunder anymore.
  
 //Mo//. I could have told you that was coming long ago. What, Zeus? pale? and your teeth chattering? What is the matter? You should cheer up, and treat such manikins with lofty contempt. //Mo//. I could have told you that was coming long ago. What, Zeus? pale? and your teeth chattering? What is the matter? You should cheer up, and treat such manikins with lofty contempt.
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-As for the men, you will find some lazy awkward coward in second or third command, or a fine swimmer, active as a cat aloft, and a handy man generally, chosen out of all the rest to — pump. It is just the same with the passengers: here is a gaolbird accommodated with a seat next the captain and treated with reverence, there a debauchee or parricide or temple-robber in honourable possession of the best place, while crowds of respectable people are packed together in a corner and hustled by their real inferiors. Consider what sort of a voyage Socrates and Aristides and Phocion had of it, on short rations, not venturing, for the filth, to stretch out their legs on the bare deck; and on the other hand what a comfortable, luxurious, contemptuous life it was for Callias or Midias or Sardanapalus.+As for the men, you will find some lazy awkward coward in second or third command, or a fine swimmer, active as a cat aloft, and a handyman generally, chosen out of all the rest to — pump. It is just the same with the passengers: here is a gaolbird accommodated with a seat next the captain and treated with reverence, there a debauchee or parricide or temple-robber in honourable possession of the best place, while crowds of respectable people are packed together in a corner and hustled by their real inferiors. Consider what sort of a voyage Socrates and Aristides and Phocion had of it, on short rations, not venturing, for the filth, to stretch out their legs on the bare deck; and on the other hand what a comfortable, luxurious, contemptuous life it was for Callias or Midias or Sardanapalus.
  
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home/texts_and_library/dialogues/zeus-tragoedus.1562434734.txt.gz · Last modified: 2019/07/06 12:38 by frank
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